Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

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agirlandhertractor
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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby agirlandhertractor » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:07 am

winston wrote:Are there other problems i am not seeing or maybe not recognizing?

Nope, that's the only problem I found. Looks like several bearings popped out at some point (maybe when I was driving over an uneven surface), and that allowed the others to move across grooves (the clunking I was hearing).

winston wrote:Wondering if a good machine shop could build up that area and re-machine.

Perhaps, but I could see that costing a small fortune with how the local shops charge around here.


winston wrote:That pinion and ring gear are sold as a set.

What is the part number? I couldn't find the part on the Hoye website or maybe I was looking in the wrong place. #6 in the diagram further up in the thread isn't a clickable link.

PS what is the equivalent US market model as far as the FWD/axle are concerned?

winston
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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby winston » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:54 am

I don't know the part number but a machine shop might be cheaper than this. http://www.hoyetractor.com/PROD/RGP-4311.htm

I think you will only find the part as a set unless you buy a pinion used and then your gears will likely not mesh as needed. I believe the part number is 194311-13101. That if for the set. Check me out before believing.

I am not sure but I believe the 220/226 4 wheel drives are the same but again don't trust me. :mrgreen:

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby agirlandhertractor » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:34 am

hm this parts catalogue:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... atalog.pdf

Shows:
Front End 4wd Components
RGP-4311
Front ring gear & pinion 220D, 226D, 240D, 250D, 276D,
(1) YMG1800D, 1802D, 2000D, YMG2000D,2002D, 2010D, 2020D, 2202D, 2210D, 2220D, 2301D, 2310D, 2402D, 2420D
Repl. 194311-13101

I've seen prices on new ring & pinion for these models at around $900. :(

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby agirlandhertractor » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:40 am

I can't afford a 900 set nor do I think it's a wise investment for this old tractor. Or maybe it is.. need time to think it over.

I wonder if putting the bearings back in place will get it back to working order.. If it starts clunking again then I know I'll have to do something with it. Maybe I'll get a new shaft spring and new bearings for a little extra insurance, but I can't see putting another $900 in it, just to have another $900 part fail a few months from now.

winston
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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby winston » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:56 am

Still think it might be worth taking by a machine shop for an opinion. If it were mine I would probably crank up the welder and grinders and go for it. That part of the shaft is evidently not hardened. One would have to be careful not to overheat other parts of the shaft. The gear end would be hardened. What's to lose.

If Hoye has this set it might not be quite as much. Might inquire.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby agirlandhertractor » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:59 am

Thanks. I'll call Hoye in the morning.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby agirlandhertractor » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:49 pm

Without replacing anything I put the shaft back together after giving everything a good cleaning & greasing. No clunking but then I didn't put it under a load in 4WD.

Still planning to check in at Hoye on the rack/pinion set tomorrow.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby Norm » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:13 pm

I'm guessing replacing the coupling and necessary bearings and balls and you would be good to go.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby agirlandhertractor » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:42 pm

Incredible. Hoye quoted $1,000.00 for a used rack/pinion set this afternoon. I paid $5,000 for the tractor.

Time to get this one cleaned and sold. I am out of the Yanmar tractor business if used parts are priced like this.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby Aaron » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:30 pm

Sigh....

I will basically repeat what I emailed you so others can have some background as to what is going on.

Unfortunately, parts prices are not based on what you paid for the tractor. We price our used parts based on what the tractor cost us to buy, how many usable parts there are on the tractor, and, historically, how quickly we expect to be able to sell those parts and break even.

It is simple.
Buy a $1,000 tractor with a good engine, good axle, nice loader, lots of good parts, and customers calling about parts for it occasionally then there is lots of opportunity to make your investment back- so parts sell cheaper.
Buy a $5,000 tractor that is very uncommon, has a lot of broken stuff and you have to charge more for the parts that are good in order to break even... or just don't buy the tractor in the first place.

We have not seen a 1601D up for sale in a long time and we did not have one here for parts - so we bought it. It was an expensive tractor. The engine is ruined but the tractor cost us more than we typically pay for a full good running parts tractor. BUT... we had a few customers in the last few years looking for parts so we bought it anyway.

Here are the two possible ways this could have gone down in your case:
1)- We can NOT buy the parts tractor and you would have NOT had the opportunity to fix your tractor no matter how bad you wanted to
2)- We CAN buy the parts tractor and at least offer the part to you. At least you have options this way. We are offering the part based on a percentage of what the tractor cost us to buy and how many good parts there are on it. It may not seem fair to you- but it is.

We took a chance in this case. We bought an expensive tractor. You asked for a part that would ruin 1/3 of the valuable assemblies of the tractor (the three valuable assemblies left on this tractor are: 4wd axle, transmission, loader). We offered the part at the price that we would need to sell it at to make sense for us to do it. Selling that ring & pinion gear set at that price still leaves us deep in the hole and, even when the loader eventually sells, we will still be in the hole and may be there for many more years until we piece more of the tractor out.

This is not a 'get rich quick' investment.

Anyway... I'm sorry you are not happy but there is a simple reason why it was priced the way it was priced: You have a fairly uncommon model and broke a fairly uncommon part that has not been made new for at least a decade.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby agirlandhertractor » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:42 pm

That's all well and fine you are in business to make money which you will undoubtably do in purchasing a salvage 1601D as you mention above.

I paid a bit over $5,000 for my tractor in '06, and it was fully rebuilt by a well known company in the south. The tractor had what is essentially a brand new motor, ROPS, a Koyker 80 loader and while not painted pretty - it was a solid tractor that's provided me with 10 years of hard work.

So you can undertstand why I find $1000 for a ring and pinion set a bit on the shocking side. How you word it sounds like you paid $10,000 for a tractor with a bad engine, and you need to squeeze out every cent possible. I'd expect to buy an entire front axle for $1000. Like I mentioned before if the part had been quoted at 500 I might have reluctantly bought it - knowing the risks with buying any kind of used part.

The fact is these aren't collectors items nor will they ever be.

If there are common 4WD models then I'm all ears. It makes no business sense to me to spend a grand on this one small part, knowing that the next small part could set me back another grand... and then another, etc. I would be a fool to put that kind of money into this apparently uncommon model of Yanmar.

Let this be a lesson for anyone thinking of buying Yanmar equipment. These are 30+ year old machines and many critical parts are NLA.

No doubt I'll get many more years service from this machine, but equipment breaks and it seems like I too am in a deep hole myself owning this model.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby winston » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:25 pm

Find a good welder with common sense and let him repair yours. I think you will only make it worse if you continue to load it in current condition.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby agirlandhertractor » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:34 pm

winston wrote:Find a good welder with common sense and let him repair yours. I think you will only make it worse if you continue to load it in current condition.


Thanks. I got burned by a machine shop a year ago (for a motorcycle engine case repair) and have been gunshy about trying another. If I can't find an affordable ring/pinion set elsewhere I may well go ahead and pull the pinion and see if I can get it repaired like you say. This tractor has provided good service since I bought it.

I hate to sound like I am busting Aaron's chops over this.. they gotta pay the bills too. They think the part is worth that much, so.. that's all that can be said on it. Hoye has been my go-to dealer for parts since I bought my tractor. I haven't spent tens of thousands with them but probably closer to over 1500 over the years. I just had to say my piece and move on.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby Desert Dave » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:08 am

agirlandhertractor wrote: I hate to sound like I am busting Aaron's chops over this.. they gotta pay the bills too. They think the part is worth that much, so.. that's all that can be said on it. Hoye has been my go-to dealer for parts since I bought my tractor. I haven't spent tens of thousands with them but probably closer to over 1500 over the years. I just had to say my piece and move on.


I understand what you're saying and I'm glad I haven't yet had anything major go wrong with my 1610D but I do have to say that I'm glad there is a company dedicated to the grey market tractors. Hope a machine/welding shop can help you out. BTW, your pics and verbal info on your fixes are great and I thank you for posting them.

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Re: Clunking in 4WD - what could be wrong?

Postby norfolktoad » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:14 am

I totally agree with DesertDave. You are lucky in the US to have a Company such as Hoye. In the UK most of the spares come from the USA and some from Eastern Europe which makes them very expensive. I would try an engineers to have the pinion repaired.

Mike

Best of luck


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