240D Starter Issue

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AltonaEric
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240D Starter Issue

Postby AltonaEric » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:25 am

Good Day, Need a little advice with a nagging issue with the starter on my 240D. Intermittently, but frequently, when the starter is activated what you get is a whirling sound, as if the drive were extending but not engaging the ring gear. If you do this repeatedly it does engage the ring gear correctly. Sometimes it engages correctly the first time, sometimes you go through this 4-5 times, totally random. Changed the solenoid a while back, no difference. Changed the starter drive, no difference. So I'm down to the starter motor itself or the ring gear. Viewing the ring gear with the starter out it looks pretty good, a little wear on the teeth where the drive would engage but only for a bit and then looks like new.
I don't mind changing out the starter completely but want to be sure that is the issue. Any thoughts, tests or general advice? It doesn't prevent me from using it, it is just time to get it right
Thanks very much

Aaron
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby Aaron » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:41 am

Most of the time that is a starter drive that is slipping but you already changed that. We have also had starters do that when there was low voltage. What is your voltage to the starter when the starter is running?

AltonaEric
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby AltonaEric » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:39 pm

Thanks Aaron-I'll check that and post it.

GBuford4372
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby GBuford4372 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:13 pm

I would also guess low voltage

AltonaEric
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby AltonaEric » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:32 pm

When I put a voltmeter to the battery side of the solenoid, nothing engaged it reads 12.8. When I put it to the starter post of the solenoid (Where the cable goes into the starter) and turn over the starter (yes, in neutral with throttle closed) it only reads between 10 and 11. I had changed the solenoid a couple of years ago to try and rid the problem and it didn't. I suppose it could be a bad one, even new can have the odd reject or is it the starter isn't drawing enough? I really appreciate the help guys. Auto electrics are my absolute weak point in DIY stuff.

Aaron
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby Aaron » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:02 pm

10ish volts is not usually enough. I think you have a bad connection somewhere.

AltonaEric
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby AltonaEric » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:48 pm

Thanks Aaron, I will check and clean all connections now and recheck.

AltonaEric
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby AltonaEric » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:24 pm

Cleaned and tightened all connections. Voltmeter reads 12+ on the battery side of the solenoid. On the starter side when it is whirling and not engaging it is around 12. When it engages correctly it drops to under 11. This is an odd one. I'm beginning to think it is the starter drive although I just changed it.

Aaron
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby Aaron » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:50 am

What happens if you try to start it with jumper cables hooked to a running vehicle or one of those jumper boxes? I still think you are not getting enough voltage/amperage.

AltonaEric
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby AltonaEric » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:41 pm

Hi Aaron
Connected heavy guage booster cables from my pickup (and left it running) to the tractor battery. On the battery side of the solenoit it is between 12.5 and 13 at rest or when starter is activated. On the starter side, when it is whirling/grinding it is slightly less but close to 12. When it is engaged and turning the engine over it drops to 10 to 10.5.
The voltmeter is old but never had it terribly wrong and there is some relativity to the numbers even if it were off.
Any thoughts would cause that? I think it may be the original starter on the tractor so it is pushing 35-40 years.
Sincerely appreciate the help

winston
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby winston » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:46 pm

Probably won't make any difference but with your jumper cables try hooking the ground to a good place on the frame, motor or whatever and the positive on the starter post coming from the battery. See if your readings change that way.

AltonaEric
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby AltonaEric » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:26 am

Thanks Winston-Tried it and got basically same readings. I did though do some thinking and thought I should check the ring gear. Removed starter and took photo of section and it looks OK. Marked the place with a felt pen, opened decompression and slowly using a large flat screwdriver rotated the ring gear through all 360 degree. Looks OK basically but one section is showing some wear back in 15% or so. Took photos. Replaced starter and recorded both whirling/grinding noise and sound when engaged. I noticed being close to the starter with my phone to record you hear more of the grinding noise than when you're in the driver seat. Will try to attach photos and sound file but may be too large to put on the site. If I can find a way to zip them I'll put in the next post. I'm wondering now if the ring gear is worn enough in that one section to cause this randomly depending on where the gear rest when shut down.

AltonaEric
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Re: 240D Starter Issue

Postby AltonaEric » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:36 am

Aaron-Sent two pics and two audio clips. to your email Windows will zip enough to email but couldn't get it to zip enough to post here. Thanks for taking the time to view/listen


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